Episode 6
Season 1
Team Viewer: What is a German company doing in Ioannina?
Philipp Deutscher
Vice President Software Development, TeamViewer
"What I like about Greek people is that they are very much open minded and very pragmatic, so those are kind of good ingredients for being part of a good team"
About the speaker
Philipp Deutscher has been based in Greece since 2019, as Managing Director of the German software company Teamviewer’s new R&D facility in the city of Ioannina. Teamviewer, valued at 5.3 Billion Euros, is known for its remote working and Desktop Sharing solutions- which have seen marked growth during the pandemic and the ‘work from home’ era. Philipp talks about the decision to invest in Ioannina, the challenges and opportunities he sees in Foreign Direct Investment, and his first impressions of working in Greece.
Show notes
Book: Outliers - Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell
What makes an entrepreneur outlier?
Thinking outside of boxes. That was the thought we had when we came to build our hub to Ioannina
Transcript
Panagiotis Karampinis
This Outliers’ podcast episode is in English.
Introduction
What I like about the Greek people that I hired is that they are very much open-minded and very pragmatic. So, those are kind of good ingredients for being a part of a good team.
Panagiotis Karampinis
Welcome to Outliers by Endeavor Greece, the podcast all about the entrepreneurs who are transforming entire markets and changing the narrative of entrepreneurship. Each week we speak to the minds behind some of the most successful start-ups in Greece and beyond and discover how they make decisions and assess risks. Through their journey and the opportunities they see on the horizon, we uncover what it takes to be an outlier. I am Panagiotis Karampinis, Managing Director of Endeavor Greece. In this episode we’re speaking with Philip Deutscher, Vice President of Software Development at TeamViewer and Managing Director of TeamViewer in Greece. Currently valued at 5,2 billion euros, the German software company is known for its remote working and desktop sharing solutions which have seen marked growth during the pandemic and the work from home era. Founded in 2005 and with over 1.000 employees worldwide, research and development are a big part of TeamViewer’s innovation process. In November 2019, the company decided to open a new RND hub in the city of Ioannina, northern Greece in a bit to diversify its products gains even further. The hub currently employs more than 40 engineers and TeamViewer plans to expand the work force to 200 engineers over the next few years. Philipp talks about the decision to invest in Ioannina, the challenges and opportunities he sees for foreign direct investments and his first impressions of working in Greece. Hi, Philipp. Thank you for joining us.
Philipp Deutscher
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Panagiotis
For our listeners who might not be familiar with TeamViewer, would you like to give us a brief introduction on the company?
Philipp
Sure. So, TeamViewer is a technology company, a software development company based in Germany. We are developing products for end users. The most common use case, the most important use case is to help people want to remotely connect to other computers, maybe to help their parents at home and to fix computer issues. That was the basic key use case and now we are building additional use cases upon this connectivity platform that we are having.
Panagiotis
And a little bit about your background and your role in the company.
Philipp
Sure. So, I joined the company three years ago, started my career in computer science, so I was also a developer in the beginning and then I went to the dark side of management, sort of speak. Before I joined TeamViewer, I was part of a German company called Tipico, it’s the market lead in Germany for sports betting. I was able there to build up the IT operations department from scratch. And that was quite successful and after four years, I decided to look for a new opportunity and I joined TeamViewer. I am responsible there for the part of Software Development and for the connectivity platform in the backend.
Panagiotis
You’re based in Greece.
Philipp
I am based in Greece, in Ioannina.
Panagiotis
You live in Ioannina. So, how did this happen? I know that recently TeamViewer decided to launch an RND center in Ioannina. How did this idea come about? I mean, who had the idea? How did he decide that?
Philipp
We officially opened in January, but the hub is already operational since November last year. How did the idea come up? So, basically all technology companies are looking to hire new software developers, to add more teams, so that they can do more, deliver more, develop more use cases. And actually, in some of the countries like Germany or even other European countries, like UK, it’s hard to find the good people, the best engineers. That’s why companies like TeamViewer are always looking to find new places where they can build up hubs and hire attractive talent.
Panagiotis
What does the Greek team work on?
Philipp
The Greek team is working on two of our products. One is the TeamViewer coproduct, so the most famous one of TeamViewer’s product portfolio. And the second one is our meeting solution breach which is now becoming even more important during the pandemic and during the crisis.
Panagiotis
In what other cities do you have presence in? How many RND centers do you have?
Philipp
Most of the RND hubs are in Germany, so the headquarters in Göppingen and it’s close to Stuttgart. Then there is a hub also very close to Stuttgart. We have another hub in Berlin. So, most of the RND hubs are still based in Germany. We have an RND center in Armenia, in Yerevan. And since last year, it’s also Ioannina in Greece.
Panagiotis
Amazing. That’s really exciting for us. What actually influenced TeamViewer into accepting this proposal?
Philipp
Well, actually, we were looking into finding a new spot for an RND hub. And we were looking across Europe. So, Valencia, Cluj and many other cities and then suddenly our city came around so well. We got kind of a hint that Ioannina would be a good fit for us and I say “What? Where is Ioannina?”. So, I didn’t know anything about the city. Then I heard it’s in Greece and it’s far away from Thessaloniki, from Athens and I said “Well, I don’t think that this is a good idea”. But then we went there. We had a couple of trips to Ioannina. We talked to the people, to the local government, also to the company who was already in Ioannina, P&I. Then it became clear more and more that this is actually quite a nice idea and maybe it’s not very obvious from the very beginning, but it’s kind of smart, because you have a lot of universities around. So, you will be able to get some talents. We learned that Greeks, especially the Greeks from Ioannina, they have a very tight relationship to the city. Their families are living there, so people want to stay there, also, people who are in Athens and in Thessaloniki or even abroad, so they want to come back. This was actually one of the reasons why we settled here.
Panagiotis
I was meaning to mention that there is another German IT company present there, P&I. Did that play a role into your decision? Did you reach out to ask for their feedback on their experience so far? And what was the feedback?
Philipp
Yeah. That was actually quite helpful. They were kind of the pioneers in this area. I think without them we would not have settled there. And they were helping us quite a lot. They made a lot of experience. They helped us to get in touch with the local government and to talk to the right people. And that was actually quite helpful. That was also a big part of the decision.
Panagiotis
During these first couple of trips, when you were investigating and exploring the opportunity of launching an RND center in Ioannina, who did you meet with? How did they help or not into the decision-making process?
Philipp
So, we were talking with the university to understand how are the software engineering courses structured. Are they teaching the people what we need? We were talking to the local government to understand: is the infrastructure ready for a company like TeamViewer? So, is internet available? Connectivity, is it given? Do we have a building where we can settle? So, those were actually the parts that were kind of difficult. It took us quite some time to find an appropriate building. Now we have an office for roughly 70 people and it’s an open office space, all very open and clean and so on. But it’s hard to find. And if other companies would follow our example, that is something which is in the beginning.
Panagiotis
When you first came here, had you already found the first people for your team or did you start recruiting?
Philipp
No, we were starting recruiting, so we came in July last year. The first mission was to find an office. So, without an office, it would not make sense to start hiring because then you have maybe already hired ten people and they don’t know where to start. So, finding a good place, like finding a good office, that was objective No. 1. This took us quite some time as I highlighted and September last year we started hiring. We found a lot of good people, but we also received, I mean, hundreds of CVs, so at the actual hiring rate, it’s like roughly 5% or so. But we selected the best 5% obviously and yeah. We started with 18 people in November.
Panagiotis
18 people in November.
Philipp
Yes.
Panagiotis
And how many are you now?
Philipp
We are now more than 40 and still have some positions open until the end of the year.
Panagiotis
Amazing. How do you communicate these opportunities? I mean, how are you connected with the local ecosystem? I’m assuming that a company like TeamViewer is known, but there is still the need to build a bigger brand and communicate your opportunities and stay in touch with the local universities. How do you do all that?
Philipp
I mean, luckily, we didn't need to really actively promote ourselves. So, we posted our open job positions indeed in LinkedIn and we have them on our career page, on the TeamViewer website. So, the news that TeamViewer is coming to town already spread, so the moment we started hiring, we already were flooded by hundreds of CVs.
Panagiotis
You’re building the team here and you’re recruiting the people. Do you see any differences between Greek talent and talent in any other country or place that you ’ve built a team?
Philipp
What I like about the Greek people that I hired is that they ’re very much open-minded and very pragmatic. So, those are kind of good ingredients for being a part of a good team.
Panagiotis
There is a lot of talk of a big skill gap in the universities. Do you see that? Do you have any training programs or internship programs with the local universities? What’s your strategy in that?
Philipp
Yeah, we started with internship programs just recently. Yeah, we will establish that more and more and we also send some of our team leads and developers to the universities to also tell the people what they can expect when they apply for a job at TeamViewer, how they prepare for the interview. Of course, that’s not an instruction manual on how to make it through the interview process, but it will give them some advice on how to prepare.
Panagiotis
Can you tell us a little bit more about the demographics of this group of 40 people? I’m assuming that some of them must be from Ioannina, right?
Philipp
Sure, sure. So, the majority of them has some connection to Ioannina. They were either born in Ioannina or they studied in Ioannina or their parents are living in Ioannina or the wife or the husband is from Ioannina. I don’t have the exact numbers, but I would assume that 90% of the people have a connection to the city. And then we have some people who just want to work for TeamViewer and in Greece. And they are also coming from Athens and Thessaloniki, even without having any connection to the city. That’s also quite amazing.
Panagiotis
Wow, that’s impressive. How is the decentralization of an RND hub contributing to the value proposition? Is, like, the talent cheaper? Is the infrastructure easier to invest in or influence? Is it any important?
Philipp
Yes and no. So, we thought it’s not a good idea to go where everyone else is already. We were looking for a place where we can find the talents and where there is less competition. And then it’s easier to find the talents. So, we don’t want to fight with ten other companies for wants. It doesn’t make sense. So, then you have always known companies losing. If there are talents in other areas, maybe not so obvious areas, that’s also kind of smart.
Panagiotis
Do you see more international companies following your lead coming to Ioannina or other cities in Greece?
Philipp
We see that there is much more interest in Ioannina. We had already visitors from several other companies. So far no one finally settled there. So, I wouldn’t say competition is rising, but I also wouldn’t say competition is bad. It’s good to be challenged. One big advantage that we have is the power of the brand. TeamViewer is a very well-known name. The first time I came to Ioannina I was at the desk at the reception of the hotel and they were seeing my business card and say “Oh well, TeamViewer. Yeah, we’re using it as well here in the hotel”. Everyone knows TeamViewer. That’s a huge advantage.
Panagiotis
How do you see the TeamViewer’s presence in Greece evolving in terms of what’s your plan for the team and the strategy for the team? Are you planning to grow the team or grow the products and the work that you guys are doing here? And I’m also interested to know: how would you see the TeamViewer’s involvement with the local ecosystem evolving?
Philipp
First part of the question. Yes, we still want to grow. So, the plans for the next years are not set in stone, so the budget is not finalized, but when we started, we said “Okay, we have kind of a vision to grow this up to, I don’t know, 100, 150, even 200 hundred people, depends on the availability of a space”. At the moment we have kind of some limitations and we have, like, place for 70 people. And we’re a little bit more than 40. This is our limiting factor at the moment. And for the second part of the question, we want to have a strong hub of engineering companies in Ioannina. So, if other companies would follow our example or the example of P&I and we could even have kind of technology hub, kind of Technopolis, that would be helpful. And then we can also find cross-collaboration.
Panagiotis
And is that RND center, RND hub, eventually going to start attracting people from other cities or even other countries. Is this part of the plan?
Philipp
It’s not part of the plan, but, I mean, if it’s happening, then it’s happening. If good people from adjacent countries are applying for a job, we are also hiring them. I mean, that’s not part of the plan. We were coming to Greece to hire Greek people, but it’s not exclusive.
Panagiotis
How did your plans and your work have been affected by the pandemic in Greece?
Philipp
Not so much because our budget for 2020 was already confirmed. We have… since the lockdown, since the outbreaks, so we had a lot more work to do. Actually, we have seen an increased amount of request for TeamViewer products of all kind. And this led to some more work, to some night shifts even. So, it didn’t negatively affect our plans. It was more on the positive side.
Panagiotis
Do you work remotely? I’m talking about the Greek team. Do you work remotely? Do you go to the office? Has the structure changed?
Philipp
Not really. During the lockdown everyone was working from home, of course. Since June, I think, we’re back in the office. Now we’re getting a little bit more cautious again and yeah, part of the team is working from home now, while the other part is in the office and next week it's the other way around.
Panagiotis
Speaking of the pandemic, TeamViewer has seen a big growth since tlast year. You reported huge profit growth in Q1 and Q2 of 2020. How has the pandemic affected the company and the strategy going forward?
Philipp
Exactly as you said. So, we have seen more companies who had the necessity to work remotely and likely, TeamViewer has the products already in place to make this happen. This is why we had this kind of jump on usage and also, billings and so on. But we are also a little bit conservative here, because we say that some companies who decided to buy TeamViewer’s licenses in March, April, May, they may want to do it later this year. So, this is just revenue which was happening in U2 or Q1 and not in Q3. And this is something that we might see missing later on.
Panagiotis
What are the next milestones for TeamViewer?
Philipp
We see that especially enterprises are having more specified requests: how the product should look like, how the use cases are. And if they want to adapt to the digital way of working, then we might also need to adapt to our product to make this happen. So, this is basically one milestone and we have also ideas in our backlogs, so as to satisfy more and more use cases upon our connectivity platform.
Panagiotis
There was a Deutsche Welle article covering the lots of attention Ioannina is getting from German IT companies describing it as “A small Silicon Valley in the making”. And I’m wondering with you being the driving force for that: What’s your take on that? Do you see Ioannina becoming a small RND hub? Is it possible? What can we do to make this happen?
Philipp
I mean, we would love to be part of that. You always start with the big dream and it looks like when P&I and TeamViewer are coming to Ioannina, people started dreaming, dreaming about “Okay, could this happen? Could we have a kind of Silicon Valley of Greece in our small city?” And if we’re part of this, happy to do so.
Panagiotis
How do you think networks and organisations like Endeavor could play a role into this momentum of foreign direct investment and multinationals coming to Greece? What can we do?
Philipp
Exactly what you’re already doing, connecting people, connecting the right people for the right reasons. So, keep doing what you started doing.
Panagiotis
At the end of every interview, we ask our guests: What do you think makes an entrepreneur an outlier?
Philipp
Thinking outside of boxes, I think. That’s also what we did when we decided to come to Ioannina. And I think from this perspective, this also makes us an outlier.
Panagiotis
Amazing. Philipp, thank you for being with us.
Philipp
Thank you.
Panagiotis
It was a pleasure. That was Philipp Deutscher from TeamViewer. Thank you for listening to this episode of Outliers. It was produced by the Greek Podcast Project. You can subscribe to Outliers on our website outliers.gr or wherever you listen to your podcasts and please, leave a review. I am Panagiotis Karampinis. See you in the next episode.
MoneyReview Writing
More than 40 young scientists have already found a job at TeamViewer in Ioannina. The German software company, which specializes in remote management solutions and support for computers and mobile devices, is planning to hire about 200 more engineers to staff the local research and development hub that it established just one year ago. But how did they choose this particular city?
