Rania Lamprou, SIMPLER: The Greek 1-click checkout that simplifies online shopping

Panagiotis: Hello, Rania.

Rania: Hello, Panagiotis.

Panagiotis: Thank you very much for being here with us.

Rania: Thank you for the invitation.

Panagiotis: A very interesting episode, a very interesting discussion. You have accomplished some wonderful things with Simpler, and I look forward to speaking with you and having this great conversation for our audience to hear. Before we get into your life and everything you have achieved, would you like to give us a quick description of what Simpler is? 

Rania: Sure, yes. So, Simpler is a comprehensive checkout platform. What we do is enable consumers to make purchases very easily from anywhere. Whether it's an e-shop, an email, an advertisement, a QR code, a chatbot, or even an AI assistant. Now that it's also...

Panagiotis: There's a lot happening right now with AI.

Rania: Exactly. So, we're giving what we call a shopping passport to a user, which remembers who they are, where they want to order, where they want to receive the product, how they want to pay, so they don't have to enter the same details again and again for every merchant they buy from. So, for the merchant, on one hand it provides a more efficient checkout that helps them increase their sales, but at the same time we provide the entire checkout implementation ready-made for them. That means user identification, shipping methods, payment methods, loyalty, fraud prevention, all of that.

Panagiotis: Okay.

Rania: As a unified solution. So, it also frees them from the costs or technological challenges they would face to manage all this.

Panagiotis: Very interesting. Now, I'm going to speak to you as a consumer. There’s no way I’ll buy something anymore if there isn’t a fast exit product. 

Rania: Perfect. 

Panagiotis: If I don’t have the option. 

Rania: We will use you.

Panagiotis: If I don’t have the option to press a button and leave, and every time you have to enter, I remember, your first name, last name, father’s name, address, postal code, emergency contact. There’s no way I’ll buy if it doesn’t have this. So, I totally understand the value. Tell us a bit about yourself and where you were born, where you grew up. Tell us a bit about your childhood years.

Rania: Perfect. So, I grew up in Ilion, here in Athens. A very simple family. My dad was in the Air Force, an aircraft engineer. My mom was a private sector employee. We also had an OPAΠ betting shop. That's my only contact with entrepreneurship.

Panagiotis: Yes, that's entrepreneurship. 

Rania: Yes, it is. 

Panagiotis: Not many people know that.

Rania: It is a form of entrepreneurship, yes.

Panagiotis: That the owners of OPAP betting shops are small business owners, who have their own P&L, have their own...

Rania: Of course, of course, all these things exist in a way. No relation to startups, of course, and no connection from my own environment. So yes, I grew up there. I studied at ASOEE.

Panagiotis: Did your dad or mom run the betting shop?

Rania: Together, I would say. 

Panagiotis: Together. So, you grew up in Ilion.

Rania: I grew up in Ilion.

Panagiotis: School, public.

Rania: Yes, public school, there. All that, yes. And no, let's say, external stimulus regarding what life eventually brought me to do. Well, I studied finance at ASOEE. Again, kind of randomly, because you know how the system is in Greece. You get points, you go to the highest... Exactly.

Panagiotis: Wherever you get in...

Rania: Wherever you get in with your points.

Panagiotis: And whatever you declare. And if it happens to you. Basically, it's whatever happens to you.

Rania: Yes. Yes, that's kind of how it was for me. I went to the first department of ASOEE back then so I wouldn’t waste points without knowing exactly where I was going to study. So... 

Panagiotis: And when did you enter the university? 

Rania: In 2007, I graduated in 2011. I finished school and I can't say I knew exactly what I wanted to do, not even then. Well, I knew what I didn’t want to do. Accounting, I realized I don't want to do that.

Panagiotis: Usually that's how schools help. They help you see what you don't want to do.

Rania: Exactly. I started my master's degree. During that time, or rather for a year, I stayed behind so I could get a scholarship. Because the first year I applied for a master's program, I didn't get the scholarship I wanted. So, I stayed behind for a year. I was working at a hotel during that period. 

Panagiotis: Athens? 

Rania: In Athens. At the same time, I was saving money and building my CV. I'm applying again. And then I got the scholarship I wanted.

Panagiotis: You wanted a scholarship because you couldn't...

Rania: Because I didn't want to... No, I didn't want to. The scholarship I got was a merit award. Meaning it wasn't need-based. 

Panagiotis: Okay. 

Rania: In terms of money... Basically, I didn't want to burden my parents.

Panagiotis: Alright.

Rania: I wanted to be independent and to know that I got in on my own, without putting any burden on anyone, on my family.

Panagiotis: Very nice.

Rania: And I did my master's degree in International Management in Rotterdam and Milan. And that's where the entrepreneurial bug started to take hold.

Panagiotis: Is there a point, do you pinpoint any places where entrepreneurship comes into the picture more strongly? 

Rania: Definitely not from my family background, I would say. My family environment is quite risk averse, nothing to do with it. Maybe a little during university, some projects. I was there at the Entrepreneurship Hubs back then. It was the first one, before EGG. It was the Entrepreneurship Hubs, and we had prepared some business plans at ASOEE, and they put us in a five-month, six-month hub, where we received mentoring regarding...

Panagiotis: And downtown in Exarchia there were some hubs.

Rania: At .....

Panagiotis: Yes, yes. How nice.

Rania: Yes.

Panagiotis: Those are very old. I remember them too.

Rania: In 2012? 2013? Yes, around then.

Panagiotis: So, that's where you start to meet people. 

Rania: That's where it starts. 

Panagiotis: But the real, the actual stimuli you get in your postgraduate studies? 

Rania: During my postgraduate studies, I had a course on entrepreneurship, and apart from reading success stories, we also... Just like now, to show how much I agree that this creates all this drive to pursue it. And we learned mainly about success stories from various companies. We also had founders come and give us presentations. And that's when I said to myself, yes, that's what I want to do. And there, in my master's, my thesis was on Greek startups. So, part of my thesis was interviewing Greek founders myself.

Panagiotis: At Bocconi? In Italy.

Rania: Who did you interview? I interviewed many of those you know. I interviewed Papadakis.

Panagiotis: Nice.

Rania: I interviewed Gkontas back then with the... With Cookistu, that was when I did it.

Panagiotis: You've mentioned two Endeavor Entrepreneurs so far.

Rania: Of course, yes, that's right. I interviewed Broustas, I did various others, some mobile apps. There were ten in total. Spanoudakis from Pinnatta.

Panagiotis: Surely you must have done the... E-shop.

Rania: I didn't do the e-shop.

Panagiotis: You didn't do the e-shop.

Rania: I'll tell you why. Because the thesis had to do with Greek startups and the internationalization of...

Panagiotis: Okay.

Rania: They had to expand outside Greece.

Panagiotis: Okay. So, not Skroutz. Not the e-shop. 

Rania: No, no. There had to be this element of wanting to go abroad. And how much the investors helped us, or didn't help, that was the topic of my thesis practice. So, I did interviews there with the founders. So, I was getting even more involved in this and I really loved hearing their stories. And somehow, some of those founders interviewed me in return. Meaning, during this interaction...

Panagiotis: Well, of course.

Rania: They said to me, maybe you’d like to join here, etc. And so, I got two or three offers from those founders. Because now let me get into how the journey begins. It was during my master's that I realized this is what I want to do. So, I say, okay, how am I going to do this? I have no idea. I don't know what it means to build a company, I don't know what it means to build a product, how to do hiring, what fundraising means. I have no idea. So, how am I going to do it, then? With what I know right now, I’m going to dive in and learn.

Panagiotis: My intuition was right, because we did some research at Endeavor mapping the paths of people who have started very, very successful startups. And 70% of those founders either started another startup before or worked for a startup before founding their own company. It's very important. If you want to start a startup, go see how... 

Rania: Exactly. You'll learn, but you can learn faster.

Panagiotis: Exactly.

Rania: You can see how others do it, at least learn from the mistakes of others. 

Panagiotis: Where did you go? Which one did you choose? 

Rania: I decided to go to Pinnatta. At that time, they were at the point where the model was changing from B2C to B2B, so that also seemed exciting to me. So, I started in marketing. Of course, there was complete transparency in the hiring process as well. I told him, I want to come because in two or three years I want to start something of my own.

Panagiotis: So, you were open. 

Rania: From the beginning, yes. And I want to help the company as much as I can, I will be there, I will work. At the same time, I want to learn, so I want that from you. To learn as much as I can.

Panagiotis: The most interesting thing is to understand a bit, why did you choose Pinnatta? Because you interviewed many founders, so logically you had options.

What made you choose Pinnatta? Was it the founder? 

Rania: It was the founder and the vision of change, that we are here right now and we want to do this. And you come at the right moment so that together we can do this. And the whole model we were going to build made sense. I think it was the way the founder sold it to me.

Panagiotis: How nice.

Rania: Of course.

Panagiotis: Now, let's talk a bit about Pinnatta and what you did there.

Rania: I started in marketing. As a marketing assistant, let's say, I was doing research, etc. That company had quite a creative aspect. And then I moved into a role which, if I hadn't known the definition back then, but today I would call it chief of staff. Because I did everything. Helping the founder as his right hand. So, then I went to San Francisco and helped him with fundraising, with business development, and with possibly finding a buyer for the company. Anything. I was behind. I did the research, helped with the decks. All of that support work for the founder. 

Panagiotis: And how did this evolve? 

Rania: The company didn't move forward. Back in 2016, it shut down. Or rather, it was sold. I thought maybe now was the time to take the step. Again, I didn't feel ready. And there I met the founders of Avocarrot. Who told me, okay, come help us out too. We want a similar role. And we are also in the process where we will soon make an exit. So, come join us. To see how this part is done as well. And then you can start afterwards.

Panagiotis: I know both companies. I know that there are many common elements. Tell us a bit about what Pinnatta did and what Avocarrot did. Very briefly.

Rania: Pinnatta was a B2C app that created interactive cards. It was quite innovative for that time period. Back then, it used the phone’s hardware, for example, to send you a Happy Birthday video. And you would blow and the candles would go out. So, it would use the hardware. To make these cards interactive. Which in Greece doesn’t make that much sense, but in America there is this culture of greeting cards. It made more sense. And then, when I joined, we were shifting to B2B to offer this technology to companies, to agencies, to creative agencies, to advertising agencies so that they could use it, to create content, actually.

Panagiotis: Exactly.

Rania: That's what I told you made more sense to me. Avocarrot was a company in ad tech, advertising tech, that did mobile ads. Ads on mobile, but native ones that adapt to the look and feel of the app's content.

Panagiotis: We're starting to distinguish, first of all, a path and a focus.

Rania: In commerce, in tech.

Panagiotis: In retail, in tech, on mobile. And you join Avocarrot. When was that? 

Rania: I think it was early 2016. And after nine months the company was acquired. The acquisition and the exit happen.

Panagiotis: A company that didn't go well, didn't succeed, and a company that had a successful exit. Would you like to compare a bit how someone who works at these companies feels about both? 

Rania: I was fortunate enough to see a little of what you should do, what you shouldn't do, which mistakes to avoid, and how important the team is. Especially at Avocarrot, they did some things very right, and I was impressed at the time, being someone who had already seen another startup, because it was their first one.

Panagiotis: Yes, of course.

Rania: And I was noticing how, you know, I was impressed by how certain processes worked or how they did hiring, etc. They hadn't seen those things elsewhere, but they had an instinct that this is how it should be done, or rather, this isn't how it should be done. When I joined there, I started in sales—I did business development and sales. So, going back to the story, I've seen marketing, I've seen a bit of fundraising, some business development, etc., some support in that area, and at Avocarrot I started with business development and sales. 

Panagiotis: Who do you sell to? 

Rania: To publishers, to advertisers. Avocarrot was in the middle, let's say, and it had both publishers and advertisers. I worked on both sides. We reach the point where the acquisition happens. Other learnings from there. I mean, I saw afterwards what it's like to transition from a startup to a larger organization. How the two teams merge, the politics, the cultures a bit, because we had different cultures, Greece, Israel, Germany.

Panagiotis: The moment you told me you're in your master's and you're meeting founders and want to become a founder, I picture someone, basically, who has taken a cart with him and is trying to load it up with things to start his own dream.

Rania: Yes, yes.

Panagiotis: And that as long as this doesn’t happen, as long as you haven’t started your own startup, you are in a process of preparation.

Rania: Exactly. Throughout all this time.

Panagiotis: So, I also understand that even this part, where Avocarrot has been acquired and is working with a large multinational, is crucial.

Rania: Of course.

Panagiotis: In your preparation. Because you learn how a large multinational operates, how it is to work with an international scope, how an acquisition or a merger takes place.

Rania: Exactly.

Panagiotis: And certainly, how this is one of the paths that a startup can take.

Rania: Exactly as you said. I was gathering skills for my arsenal. Because that was the goal from the beginning. That is, to build what we call a T-shaped skillset. To have seen as wide a range as possible and have depth in something. I chose to have depth in anything related to sales and business development, and breadth in everything else. So, I gained a lot from that experience. After having seen marketing, fundraising, business development, sales, etc., what I felt I was missing was product. And to get a little closer to tech.

Panagiotis: Okay.

Rania: After the acquisition happened, I approached the team and said, guys, what I feel I’m missing right now in order to take my own step is product. And I would like you to give me the opportunity to step in a bit as a product manager, to learn.

Panagiotis: No technical skills.

Rania: Correct. I'm not an engineer, but I was a tech-savvy, let's say, and I had one thing. I was trying to do things on my own. To be as much autonomous as I could. This is my...

Panagiotis: Yes.

Rania: I think it's strongly in my personality. So, I was also making commits, you know, on the... Being in business development, I also wrote a bit of code, just enough to understand certain things. So, I was a tech-savvy and it was quite a heavy technological product, so I had the knowledge.

Panagiotis: And you tell them, I want to move to product.

Rania: And I tell them, I want to move to product. And they gave me, bless them, the opportunity to move to product. I became a product manager. Very soon I became the director of product, of the retargeting product, which was the flagship product of the company, the parent company. And after that I had, as you said, the responsibility to manage teams in various countries, from sales etc., from China to Brazil.

Panagiotis: What does director of product mean? It means you manage engineers who...

Rania: Engineers and sales and everything.

Panagiotis: All of it.

Rania: All of product management, yes. Like a small startup within the company.

Panagiotis: Exactly. And people who might want to get involved with product without necessarily being engineers themselves or writing code themselves. Is there any particular difficulty in managing these people when you're someone who doesn't necessarily have the tech skills?

Rania: Whatever you don't have, you'll either develop it or get it from somewhere else. So, next to me I had a very capable person, he was the tech lead, and he helped me with anything I didn't understand or couldn't have the knowledge about at that moment. 

Panagiotis: And how long did that last? 

Rania: I stayed from the beginning to the end, exactly four years. And one day I left the company and said that's it, I'll stop here because all these years I was also trying to do something else; I had approached some of my colleagues and some other people. I was trying, in my mind, or I was saying, ok, now I'll build the team, I'll find the co-founders and then together we'll decide on the idea, what it is we want to work on, and that's how it will go. In the end, that didn't work out. 

I made two or three such attempts and it wasn't progressing while we were all working other jobs. So, I said I will quit this job, focus on finding what my next step is, take it forward up to a point, reach a stage where I have some validation, and then approach those whom I want as co-founders. So, during that whole period, I was searching for what my next step would be. So, you know, you keep your eyes open for the kind of problems you face as a person in your daily life, and I was trying as much as possible to use the skillset I had already built or the network I had already built. For example, Avocarrot. I was always talking with merchants. I was talking with agencies. The part, rather the funnel of e-commerce was something I was working on. 

So, what I told you earlier about the retargeting product—retargeting means you've seen a product and I target you, you see it, you see it again for many days, basically until we manage to convince you to buy it. So, that's a funnel. What we did was focus on bringing as many users as possible into the site, and we got paid for the conversion, for the sale that happened at the end. From here to there is a huge distance.

Panagiotis: Yes, of course.

Rania: So, we were already entering as consultants, since it was also in our own interest for the merchant to have more sales. To tell him, yes, but look at what you're doing with your checkout—this is a really bad user experience. We'd get involved there.

Panagiotis: You saw a problem, and it was the checkout.

Rania: Exactly.

Panagiotis: Having worked across the whole funnel.

Rania: Throughout the whole funnel, and generally we tend to say the first part of the funnel is what really counts. Run more ads. Yes, but if you're losing everything there, it's just...

Panagiotis: You end up spending more money.

Rania: For no reason at all. So, then, meanwhile I am reading a combination of studies coming out from the Baymard Institute in 2020 that focuses exactly on the problems of checkout, on abandoned carts—a huge percentage, around 9 out of 10 on mobile—and it digs deeper into the reasons why this happens. And at least 3 or 4 out of 10 reasons have to do with a poor experience.

Panagiotis: Yes.

Rania: So, if you take it a step further, if you improve the experience, you'll have more sales, you'll have fewer abandoned carts. Something so, such a simple idea. That's how it started.

Panagiotis: The idea is fantastic, you're exposed, you've worked on it for many years, you know what the solution is, but from that to actually building the technology, it still is a very long way. What are the steps there?

Rania: I start to read. At first, I was struck by the fact that something like this doesn't exist. I mean, okay, we have Facebook login, we have Google login. So, Google has my profile as a third-party service, for my name, my email, and my password. Why shouldn't it have a more extensive profile? It could have my addresses, my card or the ways I need to pay. So, I read and then understood why it doesn't exist: because Amazon had patented this technology for 20 years. And it had just expired a year ago, two years ago, that patent had just expired.

Panagiotis: Okay, so...

Rania: So, I say, wow, what timing.

Panagiotis: You totally caught the wave.

Rania: Right. And it had just taken off...

Panagiotis: Clever Amazon.

Rania: Clever Amazon, and they held onto it as long as they could.

Panagiotis: They held onto it. I didn't know that.

Rania: The one-click checkout, yes, the one-click checkout patent was patented.

Panagiotis: That was the patent, the one-click checkout. To store your information.

Rania: Yes, and how this works like a marketplace and acts as a source of truth for your data and can share it with different merchants, underneath.

Panagiotis: And this opened up in 2017.

Rania: I think the patent opened at the end of 2018. In 2020, at the same time as me, another company in America had come out and made a lot of noise and had raised something like 120 million, from Index and other very big firms. And I’m like, okay, we have this in America too, so there’s validation.

Panagiotis: If it’s happening there, why not here as well.

Rania: Exactly. We’re saying we’ll do this for Europe, which has other challenges, it’s very fragmented, very... The problem has to be adapted to each country. You can't have one solution for every country. We have very different purchasing criteria from country to country. So, it's harder, but a much more interesting problem. And we said, let's go do it. I start, I make the business plan, I begin talking to people, talking to customers, to merchants to understand, to get some feedback. The same with users. Like you said, how would something so simple seem to you? I'm learning to do design. So, I did the whole checkout, all the dashboards, the user dashboards for both shopper and merchant. I was the company's designer for over a year. 

Panagiotis: How did you learn to design? 

Rania: On my own, on Figma, YouTube, etc.

Panagiotis: Let me take this opportunity to tell our listener that from now on, you won't need to do these things because you have AI.

Rania: AI, exactly.

Panagiotis: And just imagine how much it opens up.

Rania: Of course. How much easier it makes everything.

Panagiotis: Entrepreneurship. How much... What a wave of entrepreneurship and creativity we will see. Because all those things you had to read and learn and... You know, how many months you possibly dedicated.

Rania: Now, it's just a prompt.

Panagiotis: Now, it's just a prompt. It's just a very good question.

Rania: Correct.

Panagiotis: Wow. Kudos for being among the last ones... Manual entrepreneurs.

Rania: And how lucky that this tool existed, right? Because for me, back then, it was fantastic that I had Figma and could do all these things without having studied.

Panagiotis: Yes.

Rania: Or spent countless hours.

Panagiotis: So, you build Figma yourself...

Rania: I build everything, yes. The form, the... And for almost, maybe a year and a half, we were using those designs I made in the beginning.

Panagiotis: How did you find the co-founders? How did you find the team? 

Rania: That was the hardest part. The team, how to build the team.

Panagiotis: Of course.

Rania: So, since I have this business plan and a first validation, at the same time I'm talking to a lot of people. From shoppers, merchants, investors, angels, etc. And the team, just trying to understand what I can get. So, then I spoke to Alex. Alex is my co-founder right now, CEO of the company. And at first, he wanted to join as an investor. He was at Credit Suisse back then, in Switzerland, for nine years. That's what I was telling you before about the opportunity cost and how hard it is to convince someone without having anything.

Panagiotis: How do you leave Switzerland and Credit Suisse? To come to Greece? In 2020?

Rania: To come to Greece. In 2020-2021. Could I ever do that without having something to show him? Telling him, "Come and we'll see"? No, that's not possible. Alex initially wanted to come in as an investor, based on our discussions, and then gradually, with more involvement, understood he wanted to be a bit more hands-on. And he tells me, you know, actually no, I don't only want to be an investor, I want to come in and for us to be...

Panagiotis: But he's still in Switzerland though, he hasn't come back yet.

Rania: Yes, here, both Switzerland and here. Yes, both Switzerland and here.

Panagiotis: The pandemic seems to have benefited you, and for two reasons. Because, as you search, first of all, e-commerce suddenly becomes—there's an obvious opportunity for everyone.

Rania: Yes.

Panagiotis: We all understand that everyone will start shopping online more. So, if I were a candidate to be your co-founder, you would convince me more easily. But at the same time, Greeks who are abroad—these brilliant minds who are all over the world—have either returned or are looking for a way to come back.

Rania: That’s exactly how Alex was too. At the time, he was probably looking for a way and a reason to also return to Greece. And to work on something of his own, especially something he believed in.

Panagiotis: Yes. Great. And you find one of the founders. There are three of us. Three co-founders. Tell us a bit about the first steps, how did the next one join?

Rania: Yes, yes. So now it's the two of us, me and Alex, trying to convince Spyros, who was working at Blam. Another Endeavor entrepreneur, right? He’s in the scale-up. 

So, we also had to convince Spyros to leave Blam and join us. Obviously, Alex helped there as well. He says, look at what I'm doing, look at what I'm leaving behind. Come on. We have nothing to lose. We're aiming for something big. And we convinced him, and that's how we started. And one thing led to another. I mean, that's how we gradually built it. Then the three of us brought in the other two, who were former Avocarrot, we'd worked together at Klispa, etc. We got the strongest ones back then. And we started building the team. We were those core five people. 

And the fundraising begins. We had some initial money. And we were going for the pre-seed, for the bigger round. We were talking simultaneously with angels and with funds. Things were a little easier, I would say, in 2021. Not a little, quite a bit easier. We also had, as I mentioned before, the case in America with that company that had raised at a similar level to us. They had just launched their product and had raised one hundred something million. The first angels came in; after the first angels, we spoke with very few funds. One of the first funds we spoke with was Venture Friends and Apostolos, who immediately believed in us and in... 

Panagiotis: An expert in e-commerce. 

Rania: Expert in e-commerce, expert in marketplaces. He understood the pain point exactly. He was exactly what we wanted as an investor. And the second fund that joined was MMC Ventures, which, fun fact, started from a cold message I sent on LinkedIn to the girl working there, with no introduction, nothing. And it progressed and became...

Panagiotis: Do you know how many episodes we’ve done with founders who say, my investor came from a cold LinkedIn message? And how important cold outreach is. But nobody needs to tell you that because you’ve been through sales.

Rania: Exactly.

Panagiotis: What I think sales really forge is: find a solution, find a way to talk to them.

Rania: Find a way to open the door. That was my issue. So, that cold email was the way I found to reach out to them initially, and then everything took its course after that.

Panagiotis: How much was that pre-seed round? One million. So, you had money. What was the main thing you raised it for? 

Rania: That money was mostly to build the product. The product, while it sounds very simple as an idea and in terms of implementation, is actually very complex. I mean, I'm telling you that someone raised 100 million to build it. Another company, I think, had raised a total of one billion, Bolt, another competitor in America. Okay, obviously it’s not all for the product, but a very large part has to do with implementing the product because what we're trying to do is make a unified language, let's say the Simpler language, communicate with every language used to build e-commerce, from any e-commerce store underneath. They’re built on specific platforms. And we’re trying to unify all of this.

Panagiotis: So, that everyone can use you.

Rania: So that this thing can work cross-merchant, as we say. And then all the implementations underneath that involve shipping, all the payment methods. It’s a heavy product. You can't launch it as an MVP. Not initially, just like that.

Panagiotis: Tell us a bit about the solution you have designed today. What does it offer, how does it work, what’s the win for merchants, and where do the market and Simpler stand today?

Rania: So, what we wanted to do from the start was to simplify this funnel. To simplify this purchase process. Ideally, to make it just one click, if possible. You want to buy something—from the moment you decide you want to, it shouldn’t take 4-5 minutes and 30 steps; it should be really simple. And in the sense of a marketplace, just like you have a profile on Amazon or Skroutz and can easily buy from different merchants, you should be able to do the same with each merchant individually. A reverse marketplace. That’s the idea. 

So, for us, the things we measure are ease, speed, how much users like this user experience, how much it helps them complete their purchase, how many more sales we brought because of the good user experience. We observe all of that. In other words, these are case studies that we run with merchants, and we have real numbers for this.

Panagiotis: Were there other similar "wow" moments and "aha" moments in product development? How did you find these innovations?

Rania: We were guided by how to make it as simple as possible. To remove friction from anywhere it exists. If possible. Just like you said. For example, if the idea was that first I had to make you register somewhere, add your details, do authentication, etc. And then either download an app. You're already introducing friction. So, our idea was really simple. You're going to check out with a company, on some e-commerce site. That first checkout of yours with Simpler should be as simple as possible. So, even from the very first time you use it, we should be able to deliver value to the merchant. And from then on, that should also serve as your registration to the service and follow you wherever else you go. So, we kind of followed Apple Pay’s user experience, in terms of its simplicity, but tried to make it a bit more general. With Apple Pay, it's a payment method; we are a purchasing method. A more personal shopping passport.

Panagiotis: You raise the funds, you build the product, you manage to make it, we assume, compatible with most platforms or you prioritize those that are more massive, and less so for the smaller platforms, and then you start sales.

Rania: We start sales.

Panagiotis: How has this journey evolved? That is, who came on board? Have you identified any milestones in the experience of getting your first customers, your first revenues? Yes, it was the most difficult part.

Rania: Sales was the most difficult thing after hiring, I would say, because we were trying to sell—we weren't selling something that was better than something else people were using, or cheaper, and we didn’t have a benchmark, we didn’t have a... It was a completely different way for someone to make a purchase. So, we were first trying to convince the merchants that they had this problem, to help them understand that they had this problem, and that we could solve it in this way.

Panagiotis: Yes, you have a very costly task, which is education, to educate your customer.

Rania: That, the education. It has both challenge and opportunity at the same time, because you don’t have any competition, so again, it’s an opportunity, but it also comes with this inherent difficulty. And I started doing sales. Yes.

Panagiotis: Of course, since you have done it.

Rania: I've done sales, yes. And one of the channels I found, at least in Greece—because we started with Greece as our first test country—we said, okay, we have a network here. Initially, I obviously tried to make use of the investors, etc. To get intros to clients. But one of the channels, a bit unconventional that worked, was that I would go with my personal profile on Messenger, on Facebook, and send messages to agencies.

Panagiotis: Okay.

Rania: Agencies, meaning developers who have built sites, e-shops.

Panagiotis: So, instead of going to each e-shop one by one, you went to the companies whose e-shop clients ask them to design their e-shops.

Rania: Exactly.

Panagiotis: You say, I'll go to someone who sells to many e-shops. 

Rania: Exactly. 

Panagiotis: And have them propose this as a solution.

Rania: Precisely that. I wanted to present it to them, to say, look, you understand these things. Because many times, when we're talking about small and medium businesses, they trust the agency for all of this.

Panagiotis: Yes, of course. Smart, very smart. I guess it worked.

Rania: It worked, that's what worked. And even today we use it as a sales channel.

Panagiotis: Wow. So, who are they? Do you have any big names that come first? I imagine they also give energy to the team. You know, like, we brought in this company, we brought in this big e-commerce. Have there been such cases so far?

Rania: Well, the first in Greece was Funky Buddha, which is a big company. And perhaps one of the most important milestones—this happened yesterday, practically—is the biggest one we brought in Spain. Which is now the biggest one in all the countries we are present in.

Panagiotis: Wow.

Rania: Yes, and there, you know, it's step by step that takes you to another level as a company.

Panagiotis: So, you onboarded them. Our biggest merchant in Spain.

Rania: In Spain, yes, it has various stores; e-shops in Italy, Portugal, France, England.

Panagiotis: Congratulations.

Rania: Thank you very much.

Panagiotis: That's a really great milestone.

Rania: Of course, because this unlocks other things as well. This...

Panagiotis: Absolutely. And I think this also opens up the perspective, looking a bit at where you see the opportunity and where you see your strategy. I understand that you saw this as an American story and you say, okay, let's see what's happening in Europe. So, I imagine, I suppose, without wanting to speak on your behalf, that Europe is included in... In your strategy. It's included in your targeting.

Rania: Exactly. It continues to be. Well, obviously Europe is a huge entity, so some countries in Europe are prioritized. England, Spain, Greece, we continue to exist, we started from here, as I said. Italy, France, Germany are among the countries we want to look at next, but generally we're focusing on Europe because there's a gap, no competition, there's a problem and we already have the solution ready.

Panagiotis: So, Europe is our target. I imagine that's why you recently raised a new round as well. Pre-Series A.

Rania: Yes, that's how we announced it.

Panagiotis: Which was also a very nice amount. Tell us a bit about that, and that's my first independent question, why Pre-Series A? Although it’s a very large amount, it could easily be a Series A. What is your strategy?

Rania: The lines are blurry, I no longer know what the definitions of Seed and Series A are. We announced it as a Pre-Series A because there are certain expectations about where a company should be at Series A.

Panagiotis: Okay, not that there’s another one coming right away.

Rania: It wasn’t a Seed because it’s a large amount—it would be a large Seed—and we are further along than Seed stage. It's not exactly Series A, that's why it's sort of, well, anyway.

Panagiotis: I actually find it pretty impressive and, for a Series A, the amount is 9 million. Tell us a bit about how you raised the funds, and why you did it.

Rania: Yes, okay. Well, it's interesting because the fundraising didn't happen the traditional way. This round came from a very big, a sort of colossus, let's say, in the intersection of e-commerce and fintech where we also operate, from Asia. I can't mention their name, but the point is that they approached us and all the discussions were with them. There wasn't a roadshow where I would talk to investors, try to persuade them.

Panagiotis: So, it was reactive; you didn't go out to raise.

Rania: Yeah, we didn't even go out to raise at that time, yes. They approached us, they wanted to see exactly what we were doing, how the product works. They were impressed by the product, we spoke with the company's CPO on the second call and they said, okay, what they're building is really difficult.

Panagiotis: Chief Product Officer. The person running the product. In this company you're talking about, which is very close to your universe. So, the number one person.

Rania: Yes, and because they wanted Europe, they targeted Europe as a market, they wanted to find someone like a partner to collaboratively help them enter that market through this checkout product.

Panagiotis: Okay.

Rania: And so, they were impressed by the product we had built and then by the resources with which we had built it, because we had raised one million so far. And one thing led to another, but these discussions took a very long time, because this organization moves very slowly, but we were only talking with them until we found the terms of the partnership, the round, etc.

Panagiotis: You have some great challenges ahead.

Rania: Yes, it's one of the best. You asked me earlier about some great "aha" moments. That was definitely one of the "aha" moments, the fact that they approached us, were impressed, and decided to invest in us, and we are the earliest investment they have ever made, so to speak.

Panagiotis: Okay, fantastic. How do you think they found you?

Rania: I know how they found us and it's unconventional too, lots of unconventional things. CB Insights, do you know CB Insights? It's a database of startups.

Panagiotis: They also write a lot of reports there.

Rania: Exactly. They sent me the CB Insights. Hello, we have this investor who would like to meet you. We just do the introductions. I was looking and looking again, I thought is this really it, maybe it’s spam? Probably a scam. I couldn’t believe that things actually happen this way. Usually, I ignore those emails.

Panagiotis: Yes.

Rania: And it was actually legit, I saw that the email was like that, I thought okay, yes, let’s do the introduction. And I spoke with them and one thing led to another. Then we had that meeting with the CPO, etc. And that’s how this process started. I never expected it to turn out like this.

Panagiotis: Sometimes, CB Insights often publishes mappings where it identifies certain industries or verticals. It displays all the logos that are part of that industry or pioneers. So, probably, in some commerce... 

Rania: I was there, somewhere. And since then, what I tell everyone is to keep your profiles updated on PitchBook, CB Insights, etc. You never know.

Panagiotis: What are the next big headlines you would like people to see in the coming months or the next few years from Simpler? 

Rania: We want, aside from expanding into more markets, personally I want us to enter—it's also my own area of focus at the moment—deeply into agentic commerce, which is also a hot topic. Because we, or rather what I mean, let's say, right now you can do the exploration or what we call the discovery of a product through ChatGPT, Perplexity, or any AI assistant you use, and ask it to find you the best products of type X to buy. And that's where the journey ends. That is, you click and go to the page and you’re done.

Panagiotis: Back again to the traditional way of shopping.

Rania: Exactly. The whole funnel to follow all the steps. So, we want to bring the purchase there. Exactly where you discovered the product. That’s why I’m saying that one of these points is the AI assistant. It could be anything. It could be a QR code. It could be a product you see on the street, in a shop window. We want to bring the market exactly where your intent to purchase is born. And technologically, we have created this. So, there is this bridge, this gateway of receiving a payment as if it came from my site, at the very moment when the user discovered the product. We have built this technology ourselves. It already exists.

Panagiotis: So, practically, what would this experience look like? I am in any AI environment and I ask a question—I want to find the five best chairs.

Rania: Yes, it can get even more complex. For example, you could ask, find me the best green running shoes of this brand that I can have delivered to my home by Wednesday for under 100 euros. It can go that far, or even further.

Panagiotis: And it gives you results.

Rania: And it will also display where you can directly make your purchase.

Panagiotis: To be able to say 'buy it', and have a button that says 'buy it now'.

Rania: And behind that, our technology will be in place, sending an order directly in the background.

Panagiotis: Now, how many people does Simpler have? 

Rania: Now we are 18. 

Panagiotis: 18 people.

Rania: We'll remain a small team. We want to be a small team. We're faster and more efficient.

Panagiotis: Yes, and I would say this is also part of the evolution of artificial intelligence. Recently, a letter came out from the CEO of Amazon mentioning that we are only at 0.00% of applying artificial intelligence within our own operations. 

Rania: That's right. 

Panagiotis: And we have to imagine Amazon doing much more. And by the way, at the end of the letter, "Expect that this will also lead to leaner, more efficient teams." Let's move on to this. You've recruited all 16. You're 17. 16 people have joined Simpler. You've seen all of them. You've interviewed all of them. I'm sure it's now easier to convince someone about the opportunity that Simpler offers. With what mentality, with what strategy have you built the team? What do you want to see in people, in the team members? How do you choose them?

Rania: Okay, obviously this changes a bit as the company grows, but in any case, there are some fundamental things we look for. Apart from the culture, so that they fit with the team, because that's one of the main things. Zero toxicity, no politics, etc. We want to be like a family. Everyone says it, but I want to tell you that we wish to be a united team and want to work together, for the environment to be fun, and to want to work with one another. One of the things we look for a lot is over-delivery. And also, ownership—the ability for someone to find the solution to a problem on their own without depending on others. And to have the willingness to dive deeper every time. Beyond that, there are other values we look for, but the most important thing is that, for everyone to fit in as alpha players, meaning within the team. And I'm glad because as the company grows, obviously it becomes easier. We're getting much better CVs. I mean, the people we've recently hired, both for sales and for the countries we've expanded into, are from Klarna, PayPal, from really big organizations. And really, really good CVs that unfortunately we had to reject, because how many people can you hire? But, you know, I really liked it because I personally participate in the interviews and what we heard from people who wanted to join Simpler and why they believe in what we're doing made me feel really good, even personally.

Panagiotis: Fantastic. How do you imagine the company will grow, both in numbers and in structure? I mean, are you now looking at specific profiles? And what proposition have you built beyond the vision and the opportunities it offers? I'd like you to share your thoughts on stock option plans, things like that. How do you think about all these things? 

Rania: Firstly, the way we're structuring the organization is that the company is headquartered in the UK, we have our subsidiary in Greece, the entire product, the whole engineering team is being built in Greece, and from there, in every country where we want to have a presence, we have sales and marketing teams. So, we have teams in England, sales and marketing, the same in Spain, wherever we want to expand we’ll do it like this. So, we’ll have a central hub in Greece and then the satellite hubs, which are more client-facing teams. Obviously, everyone who joins the team gets stock options, which is very important. I can’t imagine a startup where there are people who don’t have stock options. Everyone is part of what we’re trying to build. Otherwise, I don’t think I myself would join a startup. Meaning, I would go to an organization that is theoretically more stable, safer.

Panagiotis: Not all startups have stock option plans, but it’s very important and really contributes to the growth of the ecosystem. Apart from everything else. You can bring in slightly more senior people than you could otherwise. So yes, but not all startups.

Rania: These are my own experiences from what I’ve seen, and I’ve seen something that actually works even better.

Panagiotis: Absolutely.

Rania: For the other person to feel that they’re contributing to something we’re all working on together to make big, and in the end, we’ll all have something to gain from it. That’s the idea.

Panagiotis: Now that we’re talking about leadership and teams, we should also play a game which is really fun. There are various words for which we want you to give us your own definition. What does it mean to you?

Rania: Endurance. Stamina. Resilience. The definition of entrepreneurship. I think everyone says this is the alpha and the omega. You keep going, you’ll encounter many problems, but as long as the lights are on, you’ll find the way, you’ll find the solution, and that is the definition of entrepreneurship.

Panagiotis: What is the stand? Your own, when you come to the limits.

Rania: I’ll tell you that, okay, at the limits. There is a lot of stress. Obviously, a lot of things are happening. Usually, people come to you with problems and you have to somehow deal with it. I've reached my limits, but I haven't thought for even a second about saying we ever give up. No matter how difficult it was. During a certain period, it was quite difficult.

Panagiotis: I wouldn't think that about you, by the way. If you told me you had, at least what I see in front of me is, a person who in no way are you...

Rania: Yes, no.

Panagiotis: Not even close to that. Very far from that.

Rania: Right, yes.

Panagiotis: But how do you manage it? How do you not let this overflow? 

Rania: You keep a clear path in mind, your 'why', and you rely on that, and it leads you. And you say, we'll find a way, we'll find a solution, step back and move forward. That's it. That's the point where most people stumble. That's also what sets you apart. As long as you keep going, you'll find a way.

Panagiotis: What you're saying is very important. I'd like to repeat that it's what sets you apart, first and foremost. Your ability to keep going where most people stop is, in fact, what puts you ahead.

Rania: Exactly.

Panagiotis: Have you used any tools; do you have something that helps you? It could be exercise, meditation, therapy, Molly.

Rania: Molly, yes. Exercise. Lately I've reintroduced it into my life and it helps me a lot. Molly, for those who have a pet, I think she is very, very helpful; her mere existence helps. I mean, I get anxious about the team, about growth, about the investors, about what's happening every day, the customers. Molly gets anxious about where the green ball went. So, you know, it kind of grounds you, brings you back down to earth, and I think it protects you from everything else that's going on. It tells you to be in the now, to focus on the present.

Panagiotis: Have you noticed differences in the culture of founders, but even more so in society, when comparing male founders to female founders? Is there still...? There is definitely a problem.

Rania: Yes, yes, yes.

Panagiotis: Everywhere. Across the entire spectrum. But I wonder a bit about an ecosystem that is growing rapidly and a part of the market that is technologically advanced. The question is whether things are improving faster.

Rania: I believe we don't start from the same starting point. A male founder versus a female founder. So, a male founder—I'll speak generally now, not just about society, how it's approached, but in general in the business world. A male founder has to prove that he's capable of building something big. He can build something ambitious and large-scale. The woman first has to prove that she's not an exception, that she belongs in the field, that she's technical enough, ambitious enough, tough enough. In other words, it's not taken for granted that she can. She has to prove that she can overcome this obstacle, anyway. So, practically, it takes twice as much effort for a woman to reach the starting point where a man begins. So, this is a mental barrier that we need to break. And this bias is unfortunately subconscious. That is, we all say, yes, we want to improve things, or we set quotas in the funds, or we take various actions, but ultimately, it's the mental barrier that we need to break. When that barrier is broken, then we have what we call meritocracy and everything falls into place. But that initial effort you have to make to get to the point where a man starts, unfortunately, still exists and I think it will for many years to come.

Panagiotis: Have you seen any steps or something that has made you feel optimistic, or at least do you have some sense of where we should start? Because there are organizations, and Endeavor is one of them, that want to create solutions. Where do we start? Do we start from school?

Rania: Yes, it goes way back. Look, I think the key thing is to provide more examples, as we said about companies in general, about success stories. To highlight more women who have succeeded and have been recognized for it. Who do we show on panels, who do we invite to speak, who do we feature as success stories. And then you'll come and tell me, yes, but there aren't any women success stories. And you'll be right. This goes even further back, meaning why there aren't women in leadership positions, etc. Not because they're not capable, but because the system has silently excluded them somehow. So, it goes way back, to education itself. We could talk for hours about how this can be fixed. We're still quite far off, but the main thing is to create a system that helps women take more risks, pushes them, and encourages them to get into entrepreneurship in many ways and holistically.

Panagiotis: Let's do a rapid-fire questions round. Whatever we haven't yet covered about your personality and your story. Quick, binary questions—you choose one or the other. Do you prefer books or podcasts? 

Rania: Both. Book on holidays, for example. Podcast for everyday, quick, always at double speed.

Panagiotis: Efficiency. Are you a morning or a night person? 

Rania: Morning. 

Panagiotis: What time do you usually wake up? 

Rania: Seven. 

Panagiotis: Seven.

Rania: Yes. That’s the best time, no one has started yet. It’s just me and Molly working.

Panagiotis: Coffee or tea? 

Rania: Coffee. 

Panagiotis: Which historical figure would you like to have dinner with?

Rania: Can I say someone who is still alive?

Panagiotis: Yes, of course.

Rania: I would like to meet Elon Musk. Not because I necessarily agree with or like what he says or does, but it's very interesting to see how a person who is by definition an outlier operates. That is, he's beyond boundaries, he acts outside the limits, and so I'd like to see a bit how a mind works that gets involved in so many different fields and probably ignores the rules in each one of them. So, his personality is definitely interesting.

Panagiotis: If nothing else, he is an outlier.

Rania: Yes, yes.

Panagiotis: And certainly, if he were in the Greek ecosystem, we would want to talk to him. Whether we agree or not. 

Rania: Of course. 

Panagiotis: You need to understand what's going on in his mind. Which technology can't you live without?

Rania: I think it's ChatGPT now. I use it a lot. Yes.

Panagiotis: Wow.

Rania: Yes, also for personal needs. I mean, it's...

Panagiotis: Wow, that has...

Rania: An advisor.

Panagiotis: Yes. We don't use it enough yet and I think people need to be trained on it as well.

Rania: Right. 

Panagiotis: What's your favorite city for travel? Business or pleasure. 

Rania: Do I need to have been there or not have been there? I want to go to Tokyo. I haven’t been to Tokyo. I really want to go. Well, for business trips, okay, San Francisco is, as I said, the Mecca of entrepreneurship. It's been a while since I last went. It's been two years, maybe three.

Panagiotis: The situation has started to improve a bit again. Because it was, it had declined...

Rania: Yes, yes. No, it was a ghost town last time.

Panagiotis: Yes. Has it improved? It still has a way to go. Tell us about a book that has changed your life.

Rania: I've been greatly influenced professionally by The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz. I think it's a very classic entrepreneurship book. I really like it because it describes things bluntly, realistically, it doesn't sugarcoat situations, and in a way, it comforts you that even the most successful entrepreneurs have insecurities and they also face tough decisions, and also that it never gets easier, no matter how far you go, no matter how much you think that "This will happen and then things will get easier." It never gets easier.

Panagiotis: Has there ever been a piece of advice you received that made you think, 'This is really good advice.' 

Rania: It is probably more of a personal advice, but also applicable to business. Always be polite. You never know what someone else is carrying, and politeness is strength. No one ever forgets how you made them feel. I think it's good to let politeness guide us in general, in our personal as well as our professional lives.

Panagiotis: And if nothing else, in the age we live in, I think politeness is missing far more than anything else.

Rania: Unfortunately, yes.

Panagiotis: If you weren't an entrepreneur, if you weren't a businessperson, what do you think you'd be? 

Rania: I would still be making something. Maybe not something technological or technical. Definitely something where I'd be solving problems. Something creative.

Panagiotis: I think you would've been in product. You would still be in product.

Rania: I really like real estate too. I also like design. I don't know. Yes. Imagine that I've never thought about it. There is no plan B. I'm here. 

Panagiotis: Do you like real estate? 

Rania: To renovate, to find, to renovate, all of that. 

Panagiotis: That's nice. Particularly now, and especially in Athens there is...

Rania: Yes, there are opportunities here.

Panagiotis: Many opportunities. And we always finish with a question that we've been asking consistently for three years now on the podcast. What do you think makes an entrepreneur an outlier?

Rania: Someone who sees the world not as it is, but as it could be. They question the facts. They don't accept 'just because that's how it's done,' or 'because that's how it's always been done.' So, it's like saying they see tomorrow and choose to build it today. Without having a map, a playbook, or a manual.

Panagiotis: Rania, thank you very much.

Rania: Thank you. And Molly thanks you as well.